InsaneJournal

Tweak says, "Wait...what's going on?!"

Willow (the_willow) wrote,
@ 2008-05-02 23:04:00

Entry tags:

i hate people, online: life

---
There is a community on iJay right now, named Kristallnacht.

It's a Harry Potter RPG GAME.

Their info says they're well aware of what the name means and that for their game, an AU wherein Grindlewald won, they find it appropriate.

Maybe this is just a kneejerk reaction on my part. But right now I'm amazed at my ability to string words together. Because I feel something between utter sadness and knife's edge rage.

They have images all over of broken glass.

I...

I am personally upset. Just me. Just by myself. And I can't even begin to describe why, because it's all a visceral gut thing. It's odd. K*** doesn't affect me. But this particular K word seriously does.

ETA 2 things:

1) I did not expect this to hit metafandom. When I'm upset, I journal. Finding out about this made me upset.

2)

kdorian, who did find it, promoted on

asylum_promo on May 2nd, had a conversation with them here and offered to pay for rename tokens. They declined. I have the page saved.

Son of Edit: The link was put up so the conversation could be seen. Twas never my intention for folk to go over to that comm and complain. Don't ask me what I figured would happen. This is beyond me being upset now. Though for those who've seen the comm name because they have the promo asylum friended and who feel a need to say something now, because seeing me upset helped them find a voice - I'm not pointing fingers at you or saying anything about you. Cause finding a voice is important.

Cousin of Edit: Me a little more coherent.

Aunt of Edit: I was going to suggest people complain on the FAQ page of the comm, then decided against it. They didn't know they promoted their game on the Day of Remembrance and well, I don't know. I'm feeling odd sympathies alongside my upset and anger. However, some of you found it anyway. I... Thank you. I was writing about being upset when I first wrote this post, and feeling crushed and being in tears. Thank you, sincerely for speaking up and out, for being angry and for KNOWING that intent means nothing when it comes to having hurt someone. Thank you.

Parole Officer of Edit: The FAQ page no longer has any comments. They were either erased, screened or the whole post turned to disallow comments. I only have a webcap up to about 5:38pm, EST -

seperis. I didn't go back and keep updating the cap because I didn't think they'd take that step to making this WORSE. Erasing the voices doesn't silence them. It just makes people take broader actions - while screaming louder.

Sad Momma of Edit: So the name's been changed. it took the whole damn day and who knows how many people for something to happen, that some humane thinking would have avoided. Ban_set remains my friend. I started off hurt, confused but somewhat sympathetic. I ended the day, stone cold pissed off, STILL hurt, and hoping never to meet them face to face or my shoe might meet their heads. 9:52pm - They've changed their images.

(Post a new comment)

	limyaael 2008-05-03 03:30 am UTC (link)
	When I saw the name in your post, my jaw literally dropped open. So no, you aren't the only one upset. I can imagine one person coming up with this name, because I have met people that stupid. I cannot comprehend how they found so many others who decided to say, "Oh, yes, that's an excellent name for an RPG! Let's play!" headdesk (Reply to this) (Thread)

the_willow
2008-05-03 03:37 am UTC (link)

I was surprised that it brought me to tears. I have had absolutely no connection to the K-word slur against Jews. So when that came up earlier this year I was somewhat removed from it. I understood what was going on and was pissed!

But this is different.

Also, I think perhaps their FAQ explanation that it's ok to use the name, because they're merging fictional WW2 history with real WW2 history - just...

See, I'm babbling. Sorry.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	kita0610 2008-05-03 03:41 am UTC (link)
	..... Speechless. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	the_willow 2008-05-03 03:48 am UTC (link)
	hugs Friend of mine, the one who found it, sent them a msg offering to pay for the rename token should they decide to change it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kita0610 2008-05-03 03:51 am UTC (link)
	I hold out very little hope that'll happen, esp. since they knew what they were doing when they named it. OTOH, I'm sure some of their best friends are Jews! (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	the_willow 2008-05-03 03:54 am UTC (link)
	I can't even snark. I want to. It's protective. But that word just makes me break down into tears. I feel kind of ridiculous. And yeah, I don't think they're likely to change a darn thing, not when they're comparing that to fiction. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kita0610
2008-05-03 03:57 am UTC (link)

Don't feel ridiculous, you never know what kind of thing will hit home. *hugs*

This reminds me of that SPNRPS h/c fic that had Jared and Jensen visiting the Killing Fields in Cambodia so they could make each other feel better after with with the healing butt sex.

No. Really.

A friend of mine (Cambodian) posted a very polite letter in reply to it. You can imagine how that went.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

the_willow
2008-05-03 04:11 am UTC (link)

I saw that. I was very WTF about the fic too (though only saw revised version) and the claims of dog piling and pc correctness etc.

I'm now in awe of her being able to do that. Because right now I don't think I'd be on pointe. I'm a little girl again, learning about humanity's cruelty to fellow man for the first time.

I'm old enough now to think around my reactions and ponder that inner little girl and if I was just in shock that the Scourging of the Shire had a real life parallel.

But then? I didn't talk to my German crush for weeks after that. I don't think he ever got back in my favour.

It'd odd that slavery felt at a remove, but then 80% of the people I saw every day were black or mixed. At the time slavery felt very far away, whereas I had great aunts who were around when this was going on.

I've told you how I first learned about what happened. My utter shock and horror that this wasn't fiction and that there were all these people who didn't get a happy ending and even if I imagined one for them, it wouldn't change anything.

I think the next time someone calls me over-sensitive, I'm going to tell them the problem is that that they are desensitized.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

kita0610
2008-05-03 04:51 pm UTC (link)

"I'm going to tell them the problem is that that they are desensitized."

Or just basically insensitive. Because REALLY.

Never feel bad for what makes you feel bad, if that makes sense. It's not being over sensitive, it's being just sensitive enough to be human.

And, I meant to say, yay for your friend for taking point.

(*comment edited because now this has hit metafandom and I really don't need people pointing to me and saying "hey THAT Jew doesn't seem as upset as everyone else so it must be ok!")

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	the_willow 2008-05-03 05:00 pm UTC (link)
	I am not looking forward to idiots. I am usually pretty good with idiots but last night I felt that if some idiot said something I wouldn't be able to snap back. I'm still uncertain as to how I'd manage - though if it happens I will try. But 'that Jew' ? What next? Only Jews can feel upset about it? Or only Jews who grew up knowing they were Jewish? (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kita0610 2008-05-03 05:10 pm UTC (link)
	You know how it goes. "MY WIFE WAS OK WITH BOOBGATE AND SHE HAS BOOBS." hulksmash As for the rest, I didn't have the energy to lead on this one, but if anyone gives you shit I will be there with bells on and a large clue bat to back you up. &hearts (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	the_willow 2008-05-03 05:19 pm UTC (link)
	hugs Thank you. (Reply to this) (Parent)

rydra-wong.livejournal.com
2008-05-03 12:20 pm UTC (link)

This reminds me of that SPNRPS h/c fic that had Jared and Jensen visiting the Killing Fields in Cambodia so they could make each other feel better after with with the healing butt sex.

Yup, that was exactly what I thought of too.

Can fiction and fic tackle serious real-life issues well? Yes, sometimes.

Is a RPS PWP or a Harry Potter RPG likely to be an appropriate medium for talking about genocide?

...

And dear god their FAQ explanation is made of fail.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	skywardprodigal 2008-05-03 01:11 pm UTC (link)
	...Yeah. After I stopped laughing at the non-jokiness of it... I got nothing. HP. Made of Fail. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	vassilissa.livejournal.com 2008-05-03 05:58 am UTC (link)
	Yep, no way that's not offensive. And upsetting. Very. (Reply to this)

	darkrose 2008-05-03 06:43 am UTC (link)
	See, this is why I don't tell people I was involved with HP fandom. Because HP fandom is just one giant ball of fail. hugs I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this now, on top of the knee and the AoL. (Reply to this)

	das_dingsi 2008-05-03 08:45 am UTC (link)
	My main reaction to it was a dry "Ouch", and still is, because I try to avoid and downplay all other emotions so I won't be pissed off for the rest of the day each time the game shows up. Insensitive fuckwits. (Reply to this)

	skywardprodigal 2008-05-03 01:09 pm UTC (link)
	...I'm laughing because I'm so appalled. WOW. WOW. HP bring's the bad. WOW. OMG. OMG. Dear Lord. HP. Fans. People. Oh. Ow. (Reply to this)

	chopchica 2008-05-03 02:15 pm UTC (link)
	(I saw mentions of this around friendsfriends last night, and couldn't figure out who had made the original post - will edit so I can cite you) It's so incredibly repulsive. And sad. I don't really know what else to say besides repulsive and sad. (Reply to this)

	germaine_pet 2008-05-03 02:17 pm UTC (link)
	Here by way of nevernever on LJ. Thank you for posting about this. And thank you for taking it personally. We all should. (Reply to this)

	kita0610 2008-05-03 04:45 pm UTC (link)
	PS- This will hit metafandom today. I'm so glad ya'll are taking point on this one. I love you guys. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	the_willow 2008-05-03 04:59 pm UTC (link)
	I didn't expect this to hit Metafandom or go wide and far. I was just really upset and when I'm upset, I journal about it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	kita0610 2008-05-03 05:11 pm UTC (link)
	Well, your upset apparently rallied other folks' upset, so yay team you. :) We got your back, babe. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	the_willow 2008-05-03 05:18 pm UTC (link)
	I just ETA-ed about not expecting metafandom (and linking the interaction between them and the person who found the original promo). Yeah, usually when I'm rallying, I'm more angry than sad or crushed and all spitfire and whirly blades of firey doom. Not so much here. (Reply to this) (Parent)

lavendertook
2008-05-03 05:19 pm UTC (link)

You know, I get the rpg advertising community on my flist and when that name would come up in an ad every couple of days, I'd cringe, and yet it didn't occur to me to call it out. It's weird how that goes--when you don't even think to fight for yourself.

I still need to do a post on the anti-semitism I was subjected to by Russian speakers (including other Jews) during the content strike and was totally unsupported in--it was yucky. Just started a new job a month ago and haven't been posting on a lot of things I need to post on.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	the_willow 2008-05-03 05:21 pm UTC (link)
	There are times when something hits buttons so hard, you lose your voice. Apparently as upset as I was/am being able to post about it, was enough of a squeak. hugs (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lavendertook 2008-05-03 05:30 pm UTC (link)
	hugs tight Thank you. For me, I want to write/speak about it so thoroughly that everyone will have to understand, that I wind up not writing/speaking at all. I still need to get over trying to get A+'s at life. ;-P (Reply to this) (Parent)

	lavendertook 2008-05-03 07:55 pm UTC (link)
	Oy--yeah, on your last edit--I just looked. Over thoroughly backed-up there--maybe folks should give the community maintainer's a chance to breath, think, and reply further before further back-up. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	the_willow 2008-05-03 08:02 pm UTC (link)
	When I edited there were only two more comments, but that pinged me to say something. I checked back now after your comment and there's bit more than just two extra. But there's also the fact that the comm maintainers are now on the defensive and calling the individuals who are upset - extremists. ... I got nothing on that one. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	lavendertook 2008-05-03 08:17 pm UTC (link)
	Just saw those after I commented to you--the maintainer is really being an idiot (unshockingly, but I always hold out a little hope because sometimes, not often, it is met) and the same old cycle is now in play. The back-up is nice to have. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

the_willow
2008-05-03 08:30 pm UTC (link)

There are times I've been back-up, and I've rolled up my sleeves and journaled about something and been there in comments to back up a friend who'd been hurt by the stupidity or just on general principle.

I'd forgotten how whirlwind it all is when you're not prepared for it. I forget sometimes who's on my flist but also, importantly, who feeds my journal. So having the impact of having this spread so far and wide is a reminder all over again that this journal/my online presence here isn't as isolated as I often think.

I feel sorry for the maintainers. Being bombarded by angry, hurt people cannot be easy to handle. And they likely thought they'd dodged the bullet of the comm name because they've been promoting it for a little while.

But they're also regurgitating the same bullshit I'm getting tired of: Intent Alone Causes Harm. If I didn't intend racism, sexism, or other ism, then the action/statement CAN NOT HAVE BEEN...

And that is some old BULLSHIT.

It's like telling someone 'Hey, I didn't intend to knock you over with my car / step on your foot / jab my cigarette in your face - so that means you're not really in pain / having to deal with my actions and we're automatically square.'

It's a premise that makes no sense and I'm sick and tired of individuals attempting to hide behind it, especially individuals who SHOW that they were aware that there would be problems.

Waking around with a sign that says 'I may burn your hand or face with my cigarette. I don't mean to'; doesn't give them the right to wave the burning cigarette around without thinking or the right to ignore the people who say 'You just burned me!'.

(Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

lavendertook
2008-05-03 09:03 pm UTC (link)

Not isolated is both a good and bad thing, too.

I'm not feeling sorry for the maintainers--criticism is being leveled at them for good reason, but they should see that the anger in that thread is being stoked by their community member there, and aimed at her as well deserved at this point. If

hotfuss is speaking for them, as she seemed to be in refusing the token for the community (and she's not a community maintainer--WTF?), then they are promoting an antisemitic space. Her comments go beyond clueless appropriative defensiveness.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	troubleinchina 2008-05-03 11:44 pm UTC (link)
	... Extremists? .... Gosh, but don't you know, it's just a word! How can it be upsetting! shoots self (Reply to this) (Parent)

	keisarmy 2008-05-04 02:34 am UTC (link)
	Just to clarify for people reading - "comm maintainers" refers to the game maintainers, not the asylum_promo mod team. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	das_dingsi 2008-05-03 11:19 pm UTC (link)
	Comments on the FAQ post are gone, meaning they are either turned off, screened completely, or have been deleted. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	the_willow 2008-05-03 11:55 pm UTC (link)
	I saved as up to 05:28 pm. I'm not sure if it was a thread or not. It doesn't look like much comments. But still, it happened. I know it. The people who commented know it. They know it. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2008-05-04 01:28 am UTC (link)
	hello, I'm sorry I wandered into your journal after being involved in the kerfluffle. I have caps up to just before the deletion, if anyone is interested. (Reply to this) (Parent) (Thread)

	the_willow 2008-05-04 02:02 am UTC (link)
	They've changed the name and the images. But as a history/record of what happened, if you want to email me via my insanejournal fwder - that would be fine. Or you could offer up a link to download them here, or at any of the people in the asylum_promo thread who were filled with WTF. (Reply to this) (Parent)

	(Anonymous) 2008-05-04 02:23 am UTC (link)
	I am really curious why this offends you. I think the parallels between Harry Potter racism and Nazism are astoundingly blatant, and that exploring those themes as roleplayers is precisely part of how we better understand the world and its horrific crimes. (Replies frozen) (Thread)

	(Anonymous) 2008-05-04 02:25 am UTC (link)
	I also find it really strange that I just had to post anonymously because I've apparently been banned from your journal. I don't even know you. O.o (Replies frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

	the_willow 2008-05-04 02:28 am UTC (link)
	If you've been banned from my journal then you're connected in some form or fashion to the game. Given the question you're asking you only further confirm you are not someone I want to talk to. Some 300 plus people tried talking to you'all today. Some of those comments were deleted. If you want to ask questions, ask it of them. (Replies frozen) (Parent)

ardath_rekha
2008-05-04 03:22 am UTC (link)

I just wanted to apologize for how long it took the mods at

asylum_promo, myself included, to become aware of the situation and deal with it. I've been pretty out of it for the last several weeks -- super-demanding semester -- but I know that some of the other mods had been aware of the ads and had been paying close attention in case anything like this happened.

Unfortunately, our rules didn't cover refusing asylums in poor taste -- much less in taste that bad -- and their submissions otherwise followed the rules, so we'd just had to accept the submissions and watch out for trouble. (There are a few others we've been iffy about, too, besides this one.) Murphy's law kicked in, and we were all offline when things got bad at last.

I'm really sorry that things blew up the way they did, and that the fuse had been there in the first place. I wish we'd managed to get on top of the situation a lot sooner. We really do want

asylum_promo to be a welcoming and comfortable place for everyone, so there aren't really any words for how much we regret all of this happening. If an ad there ever makes you feel uncomfortable, you're always welcome to contact us and we can try to mediate a resolution. I'm sorry that we weren't able to do so today.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

the_willow
2008-05-04 02:47 pm UTC (link)

I don't think anyone believed it would really take that long and that many comments to get a change to happen. And once the game's moderators deleted comments made on their FAQ page (and who knows where else where they'd haad open comments) the promo page was the safest place to have a voice.

I understand you want your promotion community to seem welcoming and comfortable, maybe even to be welcoming and comfortable. But you were complicit in letting this game be promoted with the name it was using. You say you had misgivings about it but did it anyway, because according to rules that you made up yourself - they weren't violating anything.

Let me repeat that - According to rules you made up yourself for your community, they weren't violating anything.

Your rules, your community.

I'm not big on promoting communities myself, so it means nothing to say I do not believe I will be using your comm in the future. But it would mean more, I think, if instead of volunteering that if an ADVERTISEMENT makes someone uncomfortable to come to you - you instead allowed such a post to be a safe space for people to contact the mods of such a game/other community, without fear of their requests and comments being deleted.

Because again, according to your rules they weren't violating anything. How much help would it have been if you said that to some of the people who were outraged?

"According to our rules they're not violating anything"

I don't think you'd have come off very well. Do you?

(Reply to this) (Parent)

	the_rck 2008-05-04 04:34 am UTC (link)
	I don't have words. I tried to come up with some, but I haven't managed it. I hope that tomorrow brings happy things instead of more of this sort of crap. (Reply to this)

	delux-vivens.livejournal.com 2008-05-04 04:09 pm UTC (link)
	HP fandom can steadfastly be counter on to bring the batshit. (Reply to this)

	kdorian 2008-05-04 11:52 pm UTC (link)
	Hugs While I'm glad the avalanche has caused them to change the name, I'm really sorry it took such a toll on you. (Reply to this)