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Tweak says, "Say hi to Chelsea's mom."

Willow (the_willow) wrote,
@ 2008-05-12 14:05:00

Current mood:	contemplative + tired
Entry tags:	meta

Meta
LJ user Saeva wrote a post over on lj about her dislike of the use of the word pimp in fandom.

First off I looked at meta fandom cause I was bored and winding down from an early, hectic day. So far I'm not seeing any names I recognize in her comments so I don't know if I'd have found this otherise.

Secondly, Saeva declares the use of the word 'pimp' to be the same as the n-word (used as a verb). I... really don't agree with that. I see what she's trying to say but the n-word's been around and used a lot longer than the 4 letter word pimp (and used to denote a lack of humanity) - no matter the history lesson of the profession (pimp) being as old as the hills and then some.

Thirdly, she talks about street survivors and prior runaways who had to do what they needed to do do in order to survive, possibly being triggered by use of the word. And that's the first argument made that made me pause and think. I understand triggers and I understand being needlessly triggered.

But Saeva also talks about whether or not the fannish community is consciously trying to reclaim the word and if so what possible reasons could they have.

And I was, well, surprised to see things put this way. Because I thought it'd already been reclaimed. When people 'pimp' a tv show, or a musical artist or band or a book, series of books or a particular author to me - I do see them as making the object they want to share, wiggle to show me the good bits.

I am perusing for some entertainment and they are displaying some goods.

For that reason I'm also comfortable with them describing the action as hawking - as in hawking their wares.

I actually liked the dichotomy of fandom with it's majority female participation displaying and showing off in ways that would appeal to a majority female audience, a tv show, book or author.

When one throws slash into the mix, it all seems even more appropriate to me. I in particular think SPN gets pimped out like it has serious rent to pay. And that Jericho didn't get pimped enough, so people passed it by and left it to languish.

There's this odd combination of: PROMOTIONAL DISPLAY that comes to mind for me with the word pimp, when combined in fannish activities. I call it odd, because it brings to mind word pictures of Bookstore and Library displays and Amsterdam sex workers in their windows, lit by a red bulb.

I'm really not sure 'promote' would work as a replacement. One can promote a fic-a-thon, but one pimps the individual fics. In Sweet Charity, fanfic writers put themselves and their talents up for bid (they pimp themselves out). A tv show's network may promote it in an effort to get more viewers but fans will 'pimp it' in a way different from the generic promotion. They will spotlight fannish tropes and pretty men and UST or other kinks to hit fannish buttons.

If there's some other word that can do what pimp currently does, then, like the substitution of imbroglio for 'wank' - someone should find it and begin to use it.

But until then I think it might be difficult to do more than be aware of which individuals on your flist don't like the term.

ETA: I still think this discussion is worth having. But I've become turned off by the OP's comment here. I may just be hair triggered after Kristallnacht as the name for an HP game. But I do not like arguments of this oppression beats that oppression. Saying something is horrific in it's own right is one thing. Saying it's horrific and has gone on for ages is also one thing. Saying that it's horrific and present and multi-limbed and likely happening just down the street is yet,another (third) thing. Calling the Nazi regime a neat, easy to document, package, (unlike your current discussed topic of oppression) especially in the wake of The Missing Jewish Women of Block 24 is three buckets over the weight line of upsetting.

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fickle
2008-05-12 03:17 pm UTC (link)

Oh, thank god it's not just me.

I hate the use of the word 'pimp' for stuff. I mean, I know people do it all the time, I love watching 'Pimp my Ride', but I still hate the word. It's stupid, it's sexual and yes, the first association is a pimp and a prostitute and the sexual exploitation of women and I seriously do not see why anyone would want to use that term to promote a piece of artwork or a fic! I mean, hi, negative connotations much?

I wouldn't have thought of comparing it to the n-word. For me, it's closer to when people say that a fic "raped canon" or that something is "character-rape". HELLO, NO IT'S FUCKING NOT. Has it traumatized the character/canon and resulted in a need for therapy and lots of flinching? NO. Stop misusing words that actually have a serious meaning like that! The character's canon might have been ignored, misinterpreted, blatantly manipulated, whatever. Raped? No.

When you use words like that, you desensitize people to them. And as for 'reclaiming' the word 'pimp', wtf? Seriously? If we use the n-word comparison, then fandom people using 'pimp' is like a bunch of white people throwing the n-word around to 'reclaim' it. Newsflash -- it doesn't work that way. Reclaiming it usually done by the people who were hurt by the word or associated with it -- gay people reclaimed queer, black people reclaimed the n-word for hip-hop at the very least, and women are still trying to reclaim 'bitch'. By that logic, only prostitutes and their ilk should be allowed to try to reclaim 'pimp'. Anyone else doing that is being horribly insensitive and cruel.

I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. I avoid using it myself as much as I can, I tend to wince when other people use it and wonder where the hell their self-respect is and how they can take other people's suffering so lightly and not think about what the word actually means and I am incredibly glad that someone else spoke up about it because I have a regrettable tendency to think "Oh, it's fandom, I'm just being oversensitive" when something pings me as flat-out wrong.

Conclusion? 'Pimp' is not a family-friendly fun word to use. It's not being reclaimed by some spoiled fan thinking that hey, pointing out the good bits of canon is just the same as forcing some chick on the street to service men and then taking a cut of her pay. It's not cool to be a 'pimp', it's not something people should aspire to, and using that word is an incredibly stupid thing to do because it makes other people think that it's okay to use that word when no, really, it's not. At all.

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the_willow
2008-05-12 07:08 pm UTC (link)

You do have a point in terms of who reclaims a word. And as I re-read my post I realize the word does bring up sex work to me. But like I said, it's just also confused things because of the promotional display association.

Maybe it's because I came into fandom and peered around and realized there was a lexicon of terms that weren't being used anywhere else; mpreg, hurt/comfort, schmoop vs slash. So I did think there was a twist to the word that'd been worked out long ago that people just accepted.

Ass.u.me.

So what would be a good replacement word?

* Hawk ?

* Peddle ?

* Sell ?

* Flaunt ?

Hawk implies wares. Flaunt implies someone dressed up rich and pretty - a body consciousness.

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lovely_evil_one
2008-05-12 10:17 pm UTC (link)

This has sparked curious ideas within myself.

I don't really mind the word "pimp" when used in a fandom sense. A possible reclamation of the word? Sure.

I don't really mind the word pimp when used in a non fandom way either, but I do mind the institution of what it stands for. But only so much as that relationships inside this institution tend to be highly abusive.

I had a close friend of mine that wanted to work in a House outside of Nevada (as a prostitute). This was a highly educated, highly intelligent woman, that just happened to like her sex a little bit differently.

so, open mind vs knee jerk reaction to a profession that uses women. Is she reclaiming some part of her sex life? Maybe.

Or maybe it's all circumstantial. How you use it, how you mean it.

Or maybe I'm just less sensitive to the word pimp than to the n word or to Kristallnacht.

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the_willow
2008-05-12 10:39 pm UTC (link)

The OP was linking pimps to immigration and abuses. Which I find to be more exploitative in general than a direct corollary between sex work and instant/automatic exploitation.

It's why the word's complex to me. I learn daily about some aspect of exploitative practices in sex work. And yet, the women behind the glass with the red bulb are my mental images of a more sex positive atmosphere. Which is why I saw it as already re-claimed.

If people are questioning it, however, then it's not been reclaimed all the way or its reclamation hasn't been publicized the right way/far enough/explained enough?

But between pimp canes, pimp my ride, pimp shoes, pimp hat and certain terms/themes of blacksploitation (and films) right down to pimp walk/pimp stride - and I'm not sure if this is a case of the individual missing when pimp became 'shamelessly flaunting' or if there's something more there that I am missing.

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fickle
2008-05-17 11:07 pm UTC (link)

Pimp canes, pimp hats, pimp coats -- all not good things. Why is the whole 'pimp' lifestyle something that we should be celebrating? It's "hard out there for a pimp"? WOW. I wonder how much harder it is for the women he runs? I seriously tend to twitch at that. But I also twitch at those really stupid Nazi costumes that are meant to be sexy, and I twitch when I see skinheads wearing those patches, and I twitch when guys wear t-shirts with sayings like "I like my women like I like my meat: chopped up and in the fridge".

For me, pimping has the exploitation overtones clear and ready. Hence the eye-roll and attempt to resist saying something about "could you please not take part in ignoring the sexual exploitation of women by using terms that try to glorify the profession of people that do so? Thanks."

If I'm trying to convert someone to something, I tend to use "convert" or "rec", because the first is religious-type terminology and the second is as neutral as it gets.

*gets back to work!*

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pandorasblog
2008-05-16 09:03 am UTC (link)

I get confused as to where it came from. It seems like there's the sex trade definition, then the "Pimp my Ride" definition which is where I first heard it used in connection with showing something off - I always assumed that fandom's usage stemmed from that.

I'll stop using it, but I'd also like an altenrative. I wonder if an alternative would come from marketing terminology... I keep thinking of viral marketing in this context, but that's not accurate to fandom's enthusiastic sharing of stuff because it implies an intent to deceive the recipient of the recommendation as to where the rec comes from, while we are fans openly telling fans "I love this and I want you to love it to/think you will also love it!"

Wow. This is hard...

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	yonmei 2008-05-19 04:26 pm UTC (link)
	I don't use "pimp" myself - I'm more likely to say "rec" or "convert" or "addict" - but for a while I was using the metaphor of the pusher, and is a pimp worse than a pusher? Hm. I don't mind the use of "pimp". I find the fannish use of "wank" a lot more disconcerting. (Reply to this)